I have not been on this in a while, simply because Ive been trying to stay away from here lately but I felt I should share my experience with you.

I was emailed, late one night asking for my prices, I'm a photographer, the email was sent to myself and 4 other photographers and was simply addressed, "To whom it concerns" It went on to state that they liked my work?? and were on a budget so they would need my best prices (as if I kept those hidden for a laugh) I replied and heard nothing for 6 weeks, then I got an email stating that they wanted to meet with me, Hoped I had kept their date free and could I please call to their house. So with a few replies back and forth a meeting was setup and I organised a child minder, I then drove the 40 odd miles to their house, as I arrived another photographer was leaving, I was asked in, sat down and wasnt offered a cup of tea.

I sat for an hour while the bride leafed through my albums, the groom trying anxiously to hurry her along while looking over her shoulder at a match on the 50inch tv behind her. Eventually she turned and asked for my best prices, I showed her my carefully prepared pricelist and went through it in detail. I was told they would have a few others to see and would get back to me, they hoped that would be okay. I was shown out, went to my car and drove the 40miles home again, paid my childminder and carried on with my work.
3 weeks later I got an email from her, they liked my work again, but could get the same package I was offering for half price from someone else, could I match it please and they would be delighted to book me right now.

Could I match it please, and they would be delighted to book me right now????? Was she kidding? I spent hours preparing this price list, it has taken years to perfect it and I havent been able to raise my prices since I started as there are tonnes of new photographers who dont bother with insurance offering to do weddings for as little as 300euro! I do over 50 weddings a year and barely scrape by.

Anyhow, I replied saying that I could give her a discount, she didnt reply for 2 weeks again and then emailed me late at night to say that if I could make the discount slightly bigger she would be happy to book me. I couldnt do that, there's 5days work involved in her wedding, my insurances, my equipment, her albums, she's chosen the best album she could see, it costs a lot for this type of quality but I cant pass that on to her, she wouldnt understand. I gave her my rockbottom price, I had to sit down and work out the current price of petrol, see if my insurance was going to raise and hope my wife was off work so I wouldnt need a full days childminder just to give her that price.

2 weeks later she called me to book, "I'll have the deposit in the post for you immediately", she said, "great", said I, "I cant hold your date without it, It is a long weekend and a saturday!", "No problem, will post in the morning", she replied.

4 weeks passed, then 6, 2 emails reminding her, and a call that ended with her blaming the hubby. 2 months after our conversation it arrived.

Over the next 8months, emails went back and forth asking questions about the day, a few late night calls, a few more emails, then the wedding was 2 weeks away, another email, hubby has been laid off, can I please give her a bigger discount, still wants to keep her albums though. I sit with my calculator to see what can be done, i offer her a few options, smaller albums, less coverage etc.., doesnt want anything cut out, just cut the price. I cant do it, I'm literally making €100 on this wedding, for 5days work. She replies that shes disappointed that in this climate I wasnt more flexible, I feel saddened that she says that, But then I read about it on an online forum, where she describes me as being extortionate and inflexible, lots of other brides to be reply that they can get a photographer for her for 150euro if she wants, someone else suggests getting an uncle to take the pictures. What??? I studied in college for this, I worked under some of the greatest photographer of my time, I spent fortunes on my gear, I never miss a shot! Replace me with uncle tom? seriously???? She says to PM her for details, Lots of people do, potential clients getting warned off, my business cant survive something like that!

She doesnt do anything, just leaves me with a sour taste in my mouth, the wedding arrives I show up and everything runs smoothly all morning, we get to the hotel, she has everything for her wedding, fancy lights, huge fancy cakes, sweet bars, favors, a photo booth, nothing has been spared, 200 people sit to a fantastic meal and I'm sent to the bar to buy my own food, But, the bar arent serving food while theres a wedding on, I have to settle for soup and sandwiches, I've been working since morning with no food, this isnt gonna keep me alive until I finish tonight after their dance, nothing can be done.

The meal ends, they wait around for a while, the speeches start, they last for 2 hours, its 9pm, the hall is cleared and the band and dj setup, finally its 10.30 and the dancing starts, 1st dance, slow dance, slow dance, fast dance, bride is still on the floor, cant find the groom, I'm supposed to finish at 1st dance, still no groom, I wait for the bride to finish dancing, its 11.15, I ask her if she has my cheque, she FORGOT it, "sorry" she says,"I have everyone elses, but forgot yours, I'll pay you when i get the pictures", I remind her that its in my contracts that it must be paid on the day,"sorry, I havent got it, can I post it please" she says, the groom comes over, they whisper, he askes me will they go through the cards and get cash for me, he starts opening cards while im standing there, people are looking, I'm not doing this, its demeaning, " I tell them its fine, just post on monday", "no problem, really sorry, thanks for today, you were great" they echo in unison.

I go home, ive driven 2hrs to get here, worked for 14hrs and now i have to drive 14hrs home, im tired, i didnt get paid. I get home at 1.30am, spend 2 hrs downloading my pictrues and go to bed.

Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, no cheque, try calling on Thursday, no answer, at a wedding friday and saturday and no call from them, the cheque arrives the following monday. I lodge it and wait. I hate cheques. It doesnt clear, the bank call me and send it back to me, its bounced. Great, work done, no pay. I'm already out of pocket for this wedding, its getting worse.

I cant name this person for obvious reasons, I've spoken to them and they were neither helpful nor nice about it, they are not interested in getting me paid any time soon it seems and will try and sort it when they are back at work and some wages have come in, but if you would like details so you can avoid any future dealings with them please PM me and I will send their details.

Hi Birds,

I just wanted to say how sorry I am for you. Im getting married this july and would not dream of asking any supplier to do a job and not pay for it before or on the day. My oh is a plasterer, well he was, and I couldnt count on both hands how many jobs he has done and not been paid. It is disgusting behaviour and causes so much stress and hardship. I wanted to say this loud and clear for you, my oh and all the people who dont get paid when they have done their work. People who expect people to do work for nothing are digusting, ignorant and the worse kind and my hope is that someday they will feel what we feel waiting on this money to live. Chin up Birds - something really good is on its way to you.

Sorry to hear about your hassle !

Fair play to you birds for posting a real world view of the other side of the wedding industry, suppliers expected to jump through hoops for very little thanks or reward, being price matched with anyone who is cheaper. I know it's easy to say in retrospect, but in future, get the cheque up front weeks before the wedding. I do hope you get paid, because even with their photos withheld, you still did all the work, and got nothing for it. Absolutely disgraceful behaviour, go and see a solicitor.

Thanks for posting Birds.

Its good for people to see the other side of the coin. Hope you get things sorted. People seem to forget that suppliers need cash flow in order to keep the day to day running of our business going. When things like this happen it puts us more into the red. We are all going through hard times, suppliers included and there are incredible deals going.

Best wishes

workingmom wrote:Fair play to you birds for posting a real world view of the other side of the wedding industry, suppliers expected to jump through hoops for very little thanks or reward, being price matched with anyone who is cheaper. I know it's easy to say in retrospect, but in future, get the cheque up front weeks before the wedding. I do hope you get paid, because even with their photos withheld, you still did all the work, and got nothing for it. Absolutely disgraceful behaviour, go and see a solicitor.

+1 to this. I'm so sorry to hear about what happened to you, I'm disgusted by this. I would never dream of treating a supplier like this. I hope it works out for you.

Hi Birds,
Very well put and I am sorry that you ended up with an Oscar winning Bridezilla. As you said you have spent a long time and serious preparation in producing a price list that will enable you to survive but not thrive in the current economic climate. But still some people see your carefully worked out prices as a starting price in a downward spiralling Dutch auction between the full time professional and the "Family Friend" who will probably be a guest at the wedding and keen to get through as quickly as possible and join the other guests at the bar or part-timer that wants a few hundred extra euro to subsidise an annual holiday.
It is amazing that some people still have no conception of the work involved in a wedding for a photographer or videographer and as you say a typical wedding can involve 12-14 hours + on the day of the wedding before you even begin downloading the images for editing. Of course if you are doing a proper job you will have met the couple on one or more occasions before the wedding to discuss their plans and get to know them a little better before the wedding day. Factor in the editing, the disc burning, proof delivery etc. if it is a disc package and you are probably being conservative at 4-5 days work. Then if the couple choose an album package there is proof viewing, selection of images, album layout and design, forwarding a PDF for approval possibly a tweaking of the layout. Then after final approval ordering the album, possible assembly if not a digital album and finally delivery of the finished album. Some couples see the price of an album package and think that the photographer pockets the majority of that fee, they forget that the VAT man and the taxman get their bite, along with the album supplier, photolab and possibly a framer. Then there may be a studio to pay for, there is a website to pay for, there is a car to pay for and run, fuel, tax, service, equipment to keep up to date(with duplicates of everything likely to be needed on the day) and replace as required, advertising, marketing, printing of price lists, fliers, display albums and display prints and lets not forget about insurance (a necessity that uncle Tom or a part time photographer or weekend warrior is not bothered about). Then there are the extra hard drives and storage media required so that you can store safely the raw and edited images from each and every wedding in case a bride and groom come back in ten years looking for a particular photograph from you.
The last items mentioned are not the most expensive but are possibly the most vital because we as professional photographers have a duty to keep back-up images from every job that we do in case our clients ever need them in the future. If a couple have a fire or flood in their home and their wedding album is destroyed it may be insured but what use is that if you go back to Uncle Tom to get a copy of your wedding album, or to the part-timer who has possibly disappeared or even if they can be found will they have kept back-up images of all or even any of the weddings that they have photographed to pay for their holidays.

What may seem like a large figure for a wedding album to a bride and groom is much reduced by the time all the above expenses have been extracted and the photographer looks at what remains.

If you care about your wedding photographs you should pay attention to the above and to what Birds and Fergul in Diamond Photography have posted and remember that all of the above applies to the majority of photographers listed as suppliers on WOL as well as to professional photographers throughout Ireland will

The above is not intended as a general critisism of all brides and grooms but more as an eye opener for those seeking to try to drive the prices for a top class service offered by professionals down to an un-sustenable level.
If you are such a bride and groom and prepared to take a chance on a "Family Friend" or part-time operator then that must be your decision.
I hope this may be helpful to some wollies and I hope that Birds gets over this current hurdle and goes on to prosper in the future.
Thanks
David
www.dmcphotography.ie

And on that note DMC, it's not just photos that people are willing to "dutch auction" on either, it seems everything is up for haggling, but what really happens is genuine experienced providers with insurance and overheads close down, whilst hobbyists (who generally have no insurance, pay no tax), thrive. Then when things go wrong, the hobbyist is not contactable or won't stand behind their work, even in these tough times, you get what you pay for.

Hi,

Sorry to hear of you situation, of course, these are rare cases, the majority are perfectly nice to deal with.


PS, If you think photography is a battle ground, you should try wedding cars!

As least with photography you life may not be in danger from uninsured, untested, unlicensed cars and drivers on you wedding day.

We must compete with every owner of a 'classic' car who rolls out some banger on the weekends to offer rock bottom deals....easy when you dont pay tax, insurance, etc.........

The majority of wedding cars you see see on the road fall into this catagory!

TGT

Thanks to everyone for their words of kindness and support, it has helped make me feel a little better about it. To those who pm'd with messages of support, thank you all as well. I do really appreciate them, you are a good bunch of people.
I wont be giving out the name of the wollie though, there's no need for me to do that, no-one would benefit from it at this stage. I have taken the advice sent to me and will contact my solicitor in the morning as advised.
At the end of the day, Apart from the marriage itself, Photo's and Video are all thats left of the day, apart from fleeting memories which will fade with time, how anyone can treat the person they entrust with the capture of those memories in the manner this couple have chosen to is beyond me.

birds wrote:Thanks to everyone for their words of kindness and support, it has helped make me feel a little better about it. To those who pm'd with messages of support, thank you all as well. I do really appreciate them, you are a good bunch of people.
I wont be giving out the name of the wollie though, there's no need for me to do that, no-one would benefit from it at this stage. I have taken the advice sent to me and will contact my solicitor in the morning as advised.
At the end of the day, Apart from the marriage itself, Photo's and Video are all thats left of the day, apart from fleeting memories which will fade with time, how anyone can treat the person they entrust with the capture of those memories in the manner this couple have chosen to is beyond me.

All the best with it Birds and very well put. I sincerely hope this can come to an amicable resolution for both parties. There is nothing worse than parting on bad terms, it doesn't help either party. As I stated above, we're not some big company that can absorb hits like this. Cash flow is crucial for us. Believe me we know how hard it is for people getting married, most of us are married and I got married in '04 so only too well the expense of it. A lot of suppliers have great deals going and easy ways to pay too, we are human. People also seem to forget that a wedding is only 8-10 hours of what is a 40+ hour job. If you don't believe me, come to my studio and see the long hours I put in every night.

Best wishes again Birds.

Regards

Fergul

Dear Birds

So sorry to hear of your bad experience with this couple. In my experience, the overwhelming majority of bridal couples are contructive, straight-forward and honest. However, the occasional bad experience can leave quite a sour taste in the mouth. Most of us are small enterprises or sole traders, and something like your experience can make a hell of a difference.

Also, I feel for you on the "my Uncle Tom can do the photography unless you discount" comment. I occasionally get this too from a querying couple (sure, my Aunt Sally is a great singer and can do a good Ave Maria... we can just go with her, you know!). Well, most of the wedding service providers I regularly come into contact with are well established and experienced, have large portfolios of work, can provide different styles of service to reflect a couple's tastes, aren't frazzled or phased by performing on demand, and are nimble enough to deal with the unexpected in a creative and competent manner. So, sure Aunt Sally may be able to sing Ave Maria. But can she do so with quality, consistency, emotion, clarity and sensitivity? And can she also sing that opera aria that your Mam loves, the doxology the priest wants, the Our Father in Irish, that pop ballad for the Signing of the Register (which you had your first kiss to), and ensure that people leave with a spring in their step when you walk down the aisle and they're queueing to shake your hand afterwards? And can Aunt Sally do that in a way which enhances the ceremony without distracting the focus from the wedding couple? And will she get on with the job, or will she have to be coddled and minded?

Don't get me wrong, if you want to have a non-professional provide a service at your wedding, then good luck to you. And they may well do a good job. But you're probably safer with a professional.

Hope it all gets sorted out for you Birds. I love performing at weddings, but sometimes it does just take one slug in the salad to put you off vegetables for ever!

workingmom wrote:Fair play to you birds for posting a real world view of the other side of the wedding industry, suppliers expected to jump through hoops for very little thanks or reward, being price matched with anyone who is cheaper. I know it's easy to say in retrospect, but in future, get the cheque up front weeks before the wedding. I do hope you get paid, because even with their photos withheld, you still did all the work, and got nothing for it. Absolutely disgraceful behaviour, go and see a solicitor.

Just wanted to say something about this. There is no way I would pay a supplier weeks before the wedding, that's too far in the other direction. And good suppliers ARE appreciated. I gave my suppliers glowing reviews on here and emailed them all to thank them. I'm sure birds has had this from lots of couples in the past and that trees is in the minority...or at least I hope so!

Am so sorry this happened to you birds.. actually felt like crying reading your post, i think its disgraceful that this ciuple used and abused your kindness, they should be ashamed. I hope to hell that wollie is reading, you will have no luck for it.. Karmas a bunny. Birds, best of luck, i sincerely hope u get your payment.. am actually fuming for you...

There is no way I would pay a supplier weeks before the wedding

I didn't mean full payment, but definately the majority, of course suppliers look for payment upfront, most hotels even have staged payments these days, and with this sort of BS going on, it won't be long until all vendors will have to do the same.